oceana

leadensky has a post over here about why she disagrees with RPF/RPS.

I know, it's old, it's all been said before, but then, what in fandom hasn't been said before? But I still found it interesting, because unlike most people, she actually has arguments for her opinion. Arguments with which I disagree.
Which is funny, because I can totally understand why people have issues with RPS or find it wrong. I just couldn't understand her argument.

Under the cut, you will find what my comment in her lj. I don't usually do that sort of thing, but
a) I don't know the first thing about leadensky and have no idea if she is interested in discussing this (yes, I heard that some people do not like it when you disagree with them. I still have trouble understanding that.)
b) some of the discussions over there have already turned into the usual "Chill out", "She can say what she wants, it's her LJ!" kindergarten plays that we all know and love,
c) no one but me seems to have disagreed with her so far, and everyone just says "this is such a great argument, yay you", so I'm fully expecting to be attacked by someone over there any time soon
and
d) the words fandom_wank were already mentioned, in which case all hope is lost.

So I thought I'd post what I wrote here, because I fully trust my flist to hit me vigorously but politely on the head if they disagree with me. Also, seeing how this is my lj, coming here to tell me that I'm not allowed to disagree, because "That is her lj, she can write whatever she wants!" is kind of a moot point.
*mocks kindergarden*
(I'm not mocking leadensky, it's not her fault that the discussion over there turned ugly)

Also, my comment isn't merely a reply. It stands on it's own, I just use some of the other arguments to show mine. And I was to lazy type it all again, so it's in the form of a comment. I don't mean to discuss leadensky's opinion here, if you want to argue with her, do it over there. I'd like to hear what you guys think about my POV.



Hi!
I came here via my flist, and I found this a very interesting post, so I hope you don't mind me commenting.

Fiction is telling lies that people believe while knowing they are lies.

No it isn't.
You make many interesting and valid points in your post, but this isn't one of them. Fiction is not telling lies.

Fiction comes from the latin "fingere" which means to form or to "make up" something. Fiction is creating something that is not meant to be true. The author doesn't tell actual events, but a situation that could have happened.
This is completely different than telling a lie. Someone who tells a lie wants people to believe that it is true.

You said,
... RPS is sitting around the locker room making up stories about who Johnny and Jill are sleeping with, and who's on top., and for the reasons I stated above I have to disagree with that too.

Let me give you an example:
I sit in the locker room and we are all in love with Johnny. I tell my girls "Yesterday, Johnny came in and kissed me, and then he put his hand right here, and he said (insert something smart and funny)."
If this didn't happen, then I told a lie.

However, if I say "Imagine Johnny would come in here now, and he would kiss me. And then he'd put his hand right here, and say (insert something smart and funny)." And we'd all giggle and imagine johnny coming into the locker room, doing just that, then we'd have created fiction, because we all know that it hasn't happened, but it could happen.

That is what RPF fic is.

I agree with you that in law, fiction is understood as something that is untrue, but intentionally represented as true. But this is not a court, and the fictional stories we write aren't represented as true. Therefore, the popular RPS/RPF defense "But it's only fiction!" is maybe the only way to defend RPS/RPF at all.

Does that make RPF "right"?
I don't know. I don't care. It's a moral issue, and everyone has to decide for themselves if they want to read it. There are many kinds of fiction that I have issues with, incest, for example, or child abuse fics. But they are still fiction.

There is always a danger that the lines between fiction and reality become blurred. How often have I seen he question "Did that actually happen on the show or was it just some fanfic I read?" on my flist?

And yet, no one would argue that fanfic is harmful because it makes us forget what is "true", i.e. truly happening on TV. And the same thing can and will happen to readers of RPS/RPF, though personally, I think it's even less likely, because we all know that we have never met Jamie Bamber and Katee Sackhoff, at least not in a situation where we could have watched them do whatever they do in RPF. It's not very likely that someone believes that RPF about them is the actual truth.

And therefore I have to disagree that using real people as part of a fictional story dilutes fact with non-fact, as you put it.

I don't mean to attack your opinion on RPF, I just don't agree with the "lies/fiction" argument you made. I have issues with RPS myself, but they seem to be different from yours, and I don't want to get into that right now. After all, we can all have our own reasons for not liking something.

What I'd like to know is how you'd feel about "gen" RPF. What if I were to write a story about Katee Sackhoff at a con. How she is really nice to fans, and signs autographs, and then has a little adventure when the electricty goes off and everyone at the con is kidnapped by someone. (don't worry, I'm not going to write that.) Would you have the ame issues with that?

What about mixing real people into fictional settings? What if I make Katee Sackhoff a part of SG-1 and have her travel to other planets with Jack, Daniel, Sam and Teal'c? Surely, no one would believe that to be true, but I'd still use a real person.

What about people who aren't famous? I saw a pretty girl in the bus today, what if I wrote a story about me and her getting off at the same stop, bumping into each other, talking, having a date and so on. The girl would never know, but she'd still be real, and the setting of the story would still be real. Would that be wrong?

Again, I'm not trying to make you a fan of RPF, I'm just trying to understand what you are saying.

I hope you don't feel offended by my comment,because it wasn't my intesion to offend you or anyone else. I am just interested in your point of view.

Oceana